Paul writes "... what fellowship can light have with darkness? ..." [bible:niv:nt:2cor6]
Luke writes how Jesus "... welcomes sinners, and eats with them ..." [bible:niv:nt:luk15]
Is this a contradiction?
If I believe Paul over Jesus, does that make me a Paulian, rather than a Christian?
17 comments:
no it isn't, yes it would.
No, when there is light in the darkness, it's not dark anymore. I don't think I'd get on with Paul.
Sputnik,
Was not your first biblical quote somewhat misquoted as Paul was talking about marriage?
Are we not called to be in the world but not of it?! Thus the the Cor passage is urging us not to be led astray as a believer by being married to a non-beliver.
Light and darkness co-exist all around us do they not? For instance now as Christians do we not live in a predominantly secular world, if the latter were not occuring wouldn't we be like the Amish living purposefully apart from everyone else? This is not what the bible says in my opinion it says clearly to be like a city on a hill whose light cannot be hidden Mat 5 vs14.
Jesus said "... whoever lives by the truth comes into the light ..." [bible:niv:nt:john3].
he doesnt say "... whoever lives by the truth *becomes* the light ..."
sanctification takes a lifetime. at least.
Justification occurs immediately, santification only occurs fully at the Second Coming?
Not wanting to cause controversy but I feel I have to disagree with you sputnik. In Matthew 5 jesus talks about us being salt and light. He calls us to become the light for us.
Maybe you can look at it that we do not become the light of Jesus, but we reflect it to others, like a mirror?? Not sure.
Also Luke is directly quoting what Jesus did, who we know was perfect, therefore his actions were perfect. Paul is a human, giving his interpretation of Jesus' teachings, not telling us what Jesus said or did!!
if you think you are the light, raise your hand.
if believers think, or are taught, that they *are* 'the light', Jesus may as well have told everybody to go to the temple and train to be pharisees.
this is the danger of too much 'topical' teaching (picking a 'topic' and finding verses in the bible that match what you want to say) as opposed to 'expository' teaching (reading large sections of the bible in context).
if, inside a believers mind, there is the seed of a thought that they are 'lighter' than an unbeliever, then they are both wrong, and, they create a 'curtain' between the church and everybody else. a curtain, which the 'organised' church then bravely tries to open with evangelistic programs and events.
a believer is not free from sin, a believer is free from the power of sin.
the way a believer sees this shapes the way a believer sees an unbeliever.
apoc/dqm
i do not know what 'calling' means or where it comes from. who is 'called'? everybody, believers or just you?
Mmmmmm interesting comments, again I kind of agree with both of you.
Where does Luke 11 fit in with this? Does this not have links with what we are discussing in the thread open forum or monoblog?
Jesus is the light is he not, whilst we do not literally become the light i.e on a par with the great man himself the bible call us to reflect our light from within.
Therefore to summarise no we are not the light itself but we do contain elements of the light which we are to reflect outwards.
As for the 'calling issue' this phrase appears frequently within the bible.... I feel another language/phrsaeology discussion coming on?!!
what does luke11 say?
on 'calling', it would make me very happy to continue the 'language' revolution! it isnt a word i use at work, at home, or in the pub. i'll look it up in a concordance.
my presumption is that it is a word used, lazily, by believers. if it means 'things we believe we should do', then there are 3 categories here that should be kept separate.
1. things everyone should do
2. things believers should do
3. things i should do
itsmesilly, hendrix, are you still with us?
this is interesting. according to a concordance, the only person who used this 'calling' phrase was not Jesus but paul.
Sputnik,
You make me chuckle, for what Luke 11 says a) I think I summarsied the part most relevant to the conversation well and b) READ IT!!!
Re the whole 'calling' thing I think you are right it does seem to be Paul that uses the phrase.
I think it is probably a fashionable term and possibly an Americanism, people talk of receiving a 'call' to become a minister or to faith i.e. belief in God/Jesus.
I would agree that this seems to have been adopted by chirstians and can again mean different things to different people. Therefore I like your 3 definitiions although are 1 & 2 the same, I would not say everyone is 'called' to anything are they? What about unbelievers how would this affect them for instance?
im looking at [bible:niv:nt:luke11].
Jesus teaches about prayer, then about persistence in praying, then he drives out a demon, then he uses the exorcism to explain who he is. then he talks about the story of jonah as a fore-shadow of the end times.
are you talking about the light/dark thing?
isnt Jesus talking about himself? isnt he talking to the people who saw the exorcism, talking about seeing & believing?
he says "...your eye is the lamp of your body ... when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness. see to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness".
Sputters,
Yes I was talking about the 'light within' part of Luke 11.
As we discussed in Friend or Follower thread to each can their not be an understanding? MY UNDERSTANDING of this passage to re-paraphrase what I said earlier “Jesus is the light is he not? When we become ‘followers’ (Christians) whilst we do not literally become the light i.e on a par with the great man himself, I suppose in a sense we become enlightened in that we contain elements of his (Jesus’s) light, we are then called to reflect this light from within to others.
Therefore to summarise no we are not the light itself but we do contain elements of the light which we are to reflect outwards.”
I guess to broaden this thinking he (Jesus) is also advising us to keep our focus on what is ‘light’ so that there is no place for ‘darkness’ or way for it to creep in?
or, if my eye is the lamp of my body, does Jesus mean i should be careful what i look at? or that i should see an optician regularly? ...?
Obviously to see your optician regularly!
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